Nihonto Club

Hi,
The signature is "BISHUu OSAFUNE SUKESADA SAKU".
The date is EISHOu 15 NEN 2 GATSU, which is February 1519.

In the last picture, looks like a Model 44 carbine in the box...
Notice I didn't call it a "Type 44". If you're curious, ask me why :-) .

Pete

Thanks so much for the help on the sword, any ideas on the other one I have posted on the forum?

And yes, you got me curious, why Model and not type?

This was a great find, guy called me up said I hear you collect militaries, got the mail home box, in it was the rifle, bayonet and both swords!!

thanks

James

Hi,
The name on the signed tsuba might be "Shigenobu". I don't have much expertise in kodogu (accessories).
The blade could be nice, but I can't tell much, and it's unsigned.

Model vs Type:
The wartime Japanese guns are marked with a number, followed by the SHIKI kanji. Decades ago (1930's?) the U.S. Military translated SHIKI as "type", which would imply that yours is a "Type 44". If you look in a respected dictionary such as Nelson's, you'll see that SHIKI can be used for things like type, style, model, etc. Note that "type" is the first in the list.
The 'problem' is that in English, when referring to a gun designation, we use the word "model" in almost every case. Saying "type" would work, but that's just not the word that we use.
So, what we have is a weak interpretation, probably started by folks who didn't know enough about guns to use the word "model" in the translation - they defaulted to the first thing in the dictionary, which is "type". Some may argue that SHIKI means more like "type" than "model" - but that would be wrong. It's necessary to have a deep understanding of the language and culture to REALLY understand what SHIKI means to a Japanese person.
Language interpretation, especially between European and Asian languages, is definitely NOT a word-for-word black and white thing. The context must be understood.
So in English, the most correct word is "model".
In Japanese, the most correct word is SHIKI, because that's actually what it says!
Going the other way, our Model 1894 Winchester should be called something like "1894 SHIKI" in Japanese. [In modern times, they would more likely Romanize the word "model" to "MODERU".]
BTW, as you may know, the model number on most Japanese guns is a reference to a year in the Japanese calendar, just like our M1894.

Pete

Very cool, thanks for all the info Pete!

James